P. 1: I would like to say two things: The first one is related to the direct commissions that are made for some jobs. Since we were still university students, we're talking about the early '80s, the same pattern is been repeating since then. We hold a nationwide competition, we don't like the result and then we assign it to a third-party company, that is one of our own. The most recent example of this was the Ladder Creek thing, which caused an uproar. Another issue that is quite tormenting is Google. I mean, you have a client - or rather, you don't have a client, you'll never find them - they look for the relevant job, find a logo, take it, apply it, and it's done. There's no patenting. So you see, you go back to Elefsina, Athens, everywhere, and you see work that you've already seen abroad in France, England, Switzerland, Poland, and so on.

F. 2: There's no protection for the work, let's say.

P. 1: There isn't, indeed. It used to exist. After the liberalisation of all artistic professions, there is of course no such thing in graphic design either. That used to be the case.

F. 2: Who do you think could determine this today, take care of it, in your opinion?

P. 1: The Ministry of Culture, as it relates to Copyright. But you can't imagine the extent of theft that is happening. So that has also driven down prices. So? We're not opening up. Of course, it's not the same job in terms of labour hours before and after computers, it's certainly easier and quicker now. But the mental pressure and the creative part are the same. Nothing has changed. At least for me, who started working long before computers, the method I follow is as if I didn't have a computer. A computer is a tool used to realise what's in my mind. It's completely different from others I meet who handle the profession in their own way. For example, they find something, say, "Look how nice this is," take it, include it in their materials, and that's it. And no one will talk to them! And it's very likely to be better than the original logo that I will design. Because it's done by an advertising agency, and because it has the ability to choose from thousands.